Cascais, HFF

A difficult question, and it's not easy to find the correct answer. And right now it's also a question of where you live...
Wonderful compo!
HFF

Not the same for people among high human concentration and those living in the middle of nowhere, of course...

HFF to you!
Impressively iconic image of your strong message!

Out from the vault, but adapted indeed...

Be careful and think about the best and safe way for living more bit by bit.

HFF and a healthy weekend.

Not always easy... on most circumstances the pleasure factor is dead.

HFF Isabel!

Obrigada e igualmente Erhard

de toute façon , la mort est inéluctable ... c'est la date que l'on ne connait pas
HFF

Totalement d'accord, alors pourquoi en faire tout un film?

The answer to your question is 'No'. But of course that depends on how one defines 'living'. Stay safe and live life to the fullest under the circumstances.

That means relinquish pleasure in almost all activities, e.g. can we really enjoy going to a restaurant to have a good time and first thing you see is a white black and red announcement with covid 19 written in capitals and all the measures adopted in the restaurant, side by side with the desinfection bottle... ?

HFF.

Diese Frage ist falsch gestellt. Wir hören nicht auf zu leben, sondern wir leben eingeschränkt. Und das nur auf eine begrenzte Zeit. Es geht hier also nicht um den dauerhaften Abbau demokratischer Rechte, wie man es einigen Staaten Europas beobachten kann, sondern um die Bekämpfung einer Seuche/einer Pandemie. Hier hat sich die Freiheit des Einzelnen der Gemeinschaft unterzuordnen.
"Die Freiheit des Einzelnen endet dort, wo die Freiheit des Anderen beginnt." (Immanuel Kant (1724-1804))
"Die Freiheit besteht darin, dass man alles das tun kann, was einem anderen nicht schadet." (Matthias Claudius (1740-1815))
Man beobachtet leider immer wieder, dass der Egoismus vieler Leute so ausgeprägt ist, dass ihnen der Schutz bzw. die Gesundheit des anderen egal ist. Sie denken noch nicht einmal darüber nach.
Aber es ist eine schwierige Frage. Kann ich es mit meinem Gewissen vereinbaren, dass vielleicht Menschen sterben werden, nur damit ich in der Disco tanzen kann, in den Urlaub fahren oder in einem Straßencafe sitzen kann?

Ich werde den Übersetzer für meine Antwort benutzen, da ich ihn benutzt habe, um Ihren Kommentar zu verstehen... also gibt es Raum für Fehler.
Alles, was Sie sagen, ist offensichtlich, aber sind diese Maßnahmen wirklich in jedem Fall gerechtfertigt? Dort, wo ich lebe, hat es zum Beispiel keine Fälle gegeben, aber alles wurde geschlossen, viele Menschen haben ihr gesamtes Einkommen verloren, es gab Selbstmorde.
Ich gehöre zu denjenigen, die freiwillig für die seit mehreren Jahren bestehende, aber für die covidäre Gefangenschaft erweiterte Hotline für ältere Menschen in Not ans Telefon gehen: Viele ältere und isolierte Menschen, die niemanden mehr sahen, haben nur dank unserer Stimmen am Telefon und auch dank der Verteilung von Lebensmitteln überleben können. Aber, wie fast jeder sagt, wenn die Leute, die sie nach Hause bringen, nett sind und sich die Zeit nehmen, ein paar Minuten mit ihnen zu reden, bleiben sie auf der Türschwelle und tragen Masken und Handschuhe, und das ist schockierend.
Vielleicht ist es nur vorübergehend, aber in Masken zu leben, Menschen zu treffen, die man nicht mehr wiedererkennt, das Lächeln der anderen nicht zu sehen, einen Fremden auf der Straße nicht anzulächeln, Freunde nicht zu umarmen, Angst und Paranoia an jeder Straßenecke und in jedem Akt der Gemeinschaft zu sehen... von nichts anderem als dem Virus, Masken, infizierten und desinfizierten Menschen zu hören, ist wirklich ein Leben?
Müssen wir nicht alle irgendwie sterben?

Ein Reisender auf dem Weg nach Bagdad begegnet auf seinem Weg der Pest. Er fragt sie, wie viele Leben sie zu nehmen gedenkt, und sie antwortet ihm: 10,000.
Als unser Reisender in Bagdad eintrifft, gibt es 100.000 Tote. Er findet die Pest und erzählt ihr, dass sie ihn über die Zahl der Toten angelogen hat. Die Pest antwortet ihm, das habe sie nicht getan, sie habe nur 10.000 getötet, die Angst vor dem Sterben habe die anderen 90.000 getötet...

Übersetzt mit www.deepl.com/Translator

Ich kann mich Dir nur anschließen und 100% recht geben!

wonderful.........
happy weekend....also a HFF:)
Stay healthy ❤️

Obrigada Annemarie, igualmente

Impressive, Isabel ! HFF et bonne fin de semaine !

Obrigada Ulrich, Bom fim de semana

la "Grande faucheuse" !

Essa.... que nos espera todos duma forma ou da outra.

Isabel, the most important is to be ALIVE and to enjoy our life, even if it is not perfect at present time !!! Happiness is made of thousand little things ! A simple flower can make me happy for the day !!!! HFF, my friend and keep healthy !!!!

I fully agree that happiness is thousand little things, you can see that in my photos... but socializing is also primordial to our species... and if I agree to wear the "thing" if I go shopping I don't agree with exageration or paranoia... like wearing it in open air in places without human concentration.
Yesterday a friend I haven't seen since the beginning of this asked me if we could walk on the beach together. I joined her and she was scandalized I had the mask in my pocket and not on. I told her it was not good for health having it on all the time and outside in nature it was useless: she answered me that we never know and that if I don't wear it she would not walk along with me... I told her we woulk then walk together when this would be over, no hard feelings...
Too much desinfection lowers our immunitary defenses...

HFF, Isabel. Bleib gesund.

Obrigada Lothar, same wishes

A real message here with truth that is still prevalent today. The shadows definitely make this Isabel. Well done.

HFF, have a safe weekend . Herb

Hope we will be more reasonable soon...
Obrigada Herb, same wishes

The Grim Reaper do your best to avoid him and have a HFF and a nice weekend Isabel

Obrigada Peter, same wishes

Excellent shot and commentary! HFF! Stay well!

Admired in:
www.ipernity.com/group/tolerance

Obrigada William, same wishes for you and your lovely wife.

Bild und Text sind beeindruckend

Obrigada Schussentäler

HFF, have a great weekend.

Obrigada Frode, mesmos votos

Superbe compo !!!

Obrigada Thierry

the white rack reminds me of >>> www.ipernity.com/doc/anna.schramm/49946128

LOL, Indeed aNNa

Great find and shot - difficult question, nobody can say how the number of cases would have developed without the restrictions...
And I totally agree with Marie-Claire!

HFF, Isabel - stay safe!

Obrigada Dida, same wishes

That is a very profound question, Isabel. I have often thought about those who have had to endure confinement alone, going for weeks on end without the basic human comfort of a smile, a hug, the touch of a friendly hand, sometimes even without the sound of a human voice (not all have access to the technological means that have helped many of us keep life bearable); I have thought of small children who absolutely need to socialise with other children in order to develop harmoniously, of older people who often already stagger under the burden of loneliness, of teenagers who must do battle with their hormones in an unnatural social vacuum, of the sick - and, worse, the dying - who have been deprived of the comfort of holding the hand of their beloveds, of striken families who have not been able to hold funerals to mourn their losses, of doctors and nurses who have had to isolate themselves from their families in order not to risk infecting them, of those who have lost their livelihoods and those who have put their lives on the line to help others. A staggering mountain of sacrifice and suffering that cannot be ignored. And yet letting "the plague" run its course would cause even worse evils and bring a landslide of deaths, both caused directly by the sickness and indirectly by the collapse of the health care system. The North of Italy has seen this happen at the height of the crisis, with hospitals having to come up with protocols to decide who would get treatment and who would be left to die. We have looked these horrors right in the eye and it is an experience that will mark our collective consciousness for years to come.
There is even now a national debate about "tailoring" the preventative measures to the local situation. Most of the cases we are seeing are still concentrated in the north, Lombardy in particular, and people argue that those areas should be handled differently from, say, the southern regions that have seen no new cases for quite some time now.
But the virus knows no regional boundaries and even in your remote area all it would take for it to spread like a wild fire would be just one affected person interacting freely with others. This is what happened in Codogno, Italy. The virus went undetected and had spread extensively before it was finally recognised. By then, it was everywhere, had traveled widely across regions and even into remote mountain locations, and we didn't have the shadow of a hope to contain it (by tracing and isolating suspected cases). Mitigation (the lockdown) was the only option left. And it can all happen again, even now. All it would take is a for a few cases, or even just one, to escape the tracing grid and we would soon be back where we were at the time of lockdown. I understand completely how you must feel, witnessing first hand all the suffering the preventative measures are causing, but I don't see an alternative. I see only the need to do what you are doing: working to alleviate it, letting people hear a caring voice that lets them know they are not utterly alone and forgotten, knocking on their doors and visiting for a bit. Even behind a mask a friend is a friend and eyes can smile even if the rest of the face is hidden. It's not the best, but it is something and we should honour those like you who do their best to help.

Different places, different realities, different points of view and ways of feeling about it.
Nevertheless we will never know what was really behind all this nonsense...

Nonsense? What do you mean?

Isabel, I'm really shocked. What do you mean with nonsense?

Medias inducing so much fear on people, announcing deaths everyday in a way that everyone feared to be next, creating a paranoiac atmosphere that leaded so much people to say they stopped looking at news any longer not to be totally depressed. The despair created by the lockdown for many people in all countries, even on yours, people who were not entitled to the helps even if they lost everything because of lockdown. Unadapted reactions of some to different circumstances... etc, etc, etc
Measures and counter-mesures, but will we ever know the truth? I doubt.

Shocked? No need to. I am shocked by many other things a lot more important.
But you can read my answer to Thorsten just one post up to yours.

Truth? Yes, there is a truth. Those countries, which began later with the lockdown, or had less restrictions or none at all, they have the highest death toll by far. Mostly there are right wing leaders, but not only. You have 109000 deaths in the US (Trump: "It's only a little flu."), 34000 deaths in Brazil (Bolsonaro with the same idiotiv saying), 40300 deaths in UK (you remember Johnson ignoring the pandemic at the begin?). Sweden with a very "liberal" approach has the highest death rate after UK. Average people are not able to act on personal responsibility, that's also a "truth". They need guidelines. And a final word to your example with 2 suicides. This is really always a very sad and tragical incident. But don't you think, that there must have been something badly wrong before Corona, if somebody commits suicide after a lockdown of one month?

Gadanha velha e já ferrugenta de cabo esgaçado, largamente substituída por novos "métodos".
Não impressiona os velhos leitores, só consegue fazer comer o caldo aos putos.
Enfim, como o destino, mantém-se como símbolo.
HFF

E tudo passa, enferruja, fica obsoleto. Só o carinho das memórias mantêm a vida, algo que os putos não podem perceber.

I would also say 'no', but the CV19 has not been as severe here. HFF, stay safe and best wishes for the weekend, Isabel.

We will never know the hidden truth... but we see the results...

Good work.
◦•●◉✿ Have a great weekend✿◉●•◦

Obrigada June, same wishes

Impressive shot and words. HFF, wish you a fine weekend, Isabel !

Obrigada percy, same wishes

Concerning the virus, I don't think, that anybody has to stop living........except he dies from Covid19. Most of us live in an extreme wealth and abundance and to live a certain time with certain restrictions for the benifit and safety of others is appropriate.
HFF!

It will not be temporary for those who lost everything in the lockdown... for those who died in loneliness because their beloved where forbidden to be at their side... and so on... was that really justified? I doubt but I do not have the answer.
Obrigada Berny

It would have been justified in your opinion, to risk 10000s more of deaths, only to have continuous pleasure and fun? There are many very reliable studies, what would have been happened without restrictions.

PLEASURE AND FUN?????
So people who lost everything and queue for food at welfare associations, people who died without the comfort of their loved ones because of the lockdown, non-covid patients who perished out of fear of hospital care and others who resorted to it urgently, not arriving alive because doctors wanted to find out first whether or not they were carriers of the virus... only wanted to have PLEASURE AND FUN according to you???????
Maybe there are a lot more than 10000s deaths not of the covid but of the mesures to avoid it, and those also deserve RESPECT.
I have been on social assistance for the isolated old population during the lockdown here and I saw so much despair that I AM DEEPLY SHOKED by your words above.
We surely do not live in the same world... so...

You wrote: "Not always easy... on most circumstances the pleasure factor is dead."

You further wrote: "That means relinquish pleasure in almost all activities, e.g. can we really enjoy going to a restaurant to have a good time and first thing you see is a white black and red announcement with covid 19 written in capitals and all the measures adopted in the restaurant, side by side with the desinfection bottle... ?"

I therefore don't understand your excitement? You mentioned the loss of pleasure, didn't you? By the way, I'm still interested, what you mean with "all this nonsense"? People who talk about the virus in such an ignorant manner like Trump, Bolsonaro and Johnson (at the beginning) and others would quickly change their mind, if they would suffer severly from Covid19 themselves or one of their beloved family members.

Sorry for being so open, this is my nature. I'm always for tolerance and diversity in opinions. But in this special case, I think, you are "deadly" wrong.

What I meant above and that you should have understood is that behind restaurants, bars, shops etc there are WORKERS. And candidates to unemployment if this goes on.
My excitement? You keep attacking me with total intolerance and I am the excited one? Come on... down to earth!
Future will maybe give us the answer, but till then all we can say is speculation based in our own culture and experience. You don´t know anything about me and you do not have the right to prejudge about my knowledge or experience. And I have the right to think and say that all other causes of death did not stop existing because of covid and deserve equal attention and respect.
Over and out now before this becomes ridiculous and more loss of time.

Ein temporärer Zaun, überall einsetzbar. HFF und ein schönes Wochenende!

Obrigada Falk, mesmos votos

Wise words and fantastic shot!
Kind regards, Karin

Obrigada Karin, cordialmente

Que bella imagen bonitas sombras y gran detalle en azul de la vara de la guadaña
Cada vez mas finos los celulares con sus imágenes
Nítido pense que era con tu Leica
La guadaña tiene que ver con la muerte , es por eso la historia??? o solo coincidencia y estoy suceptible, jajajaj
HFF Isabel, nuevamente linda imagen

Estaba con un amigo y sin la Leica, pensaba volver pa hacer nuevamente la foto y... no lo hice. Esta foto quedó olvidada en el móvil este tiempo todo. El otro dia al buscar otra cosa la vi... y pensé desde luego que seria estupenda pa este viernes pa ilustrar lo que yo queria escribir sobre "la cosa".
Gracias Mario, disfruta tu fin de semana

Dear Isabel, I really understand what you try to say. You live in an area where the grim reaper is'nt busy. The son (aged 56 years) of our very good riends came back from his vacation in Austria. There he lived with his wife in a room where before the father-in-law of the owner had been. This man died of Covid19, but they did'nt tell him this fact. Some days after coming home the son of our friend fall sick of Covid19 very, very badly. He was sent for 10 days into the "nowhere" (he said "I was for 10 days in the valley of the eternal hunting grounds"). After some weeks he is "healthy", but his lung is damaged.
Another case: A very good friend of "LotharW" (please look above) died</a
Please be careful, too, dear Isabel - nevertheless!!!

Dear Uli, two friends of mine commited suicide because with 70 y.o. and almost no retirement pension they lost the little business which meant survival and hope to recover a life because of the lockdown. A neighbour died because his leucemia was not treated properly during the covid as all was for the covid and other diseases had to wait. In the village 5 deaths during this time, none due to the covid but they were old people and they couldn't have proper assistance because of the covid: we are 73 inhabitants left now.
We didn't have any covid cases here but we had covid victims, was this justified?
The question remains unanswered.

All these things are really a disaster, dear Isabel, I understand your bitterness!!!
A lot of questions stay unanswered :-(((.
It is not easy for my husband and me, because we are in voluntarily quarantine because of our age and a serious illness of my husband last year...

Wishing you all the best... obrigada

Many thanks, Isabel, and all the best for you, too!!!

We have been fortunate that neither us or our families are affected health wise but it taken away customers and livelihoods' many of whom sadly will never be able to return, and 75 days lock-down really is enough although sadly we are not through this yet,
HFF and a good weekend

Indeed Roger...
HFF and same wishes

HFF to this striking and timely image, Isabel.
The Grim Reaper has been with us forever....I am so sad to hear it has had such catastrophic consequences in your village. In such a small community that would cause huge grief and sadness. Thinking of you.
Keep safe and well....D❤️

Obrigada Diana, it comforts me that you understand my grief...
Same wishes for you very Dear.

HFF Isabel... chez moi on dit que la peur n'évite pas le danger, alors continuons de vivre au mieux chaque jour que Dieu fait !
Restez en sécurité et gardez le moral surtout.

Obrigada Jocelyne, tout à fait ok avec vous

An excellent capture Isabel. It looks to be the home of the Grim Reaper.

I have no idea where the answer lies. I have stopped listening to the news as I am sick of being scared. It is enough to know there has been a spike in cases and deaths locally since the relaxation of the rules so for now we will go out but to quiet places and enjoy nature which is what we love. We have stayed indoors until this week so even this has had a huge impact and we feel much better. As we don't go out and socialise a lot normally it doesn't affect us as badly as those who do but I miss my family. I hope things improve soon.

My heart goes out to you Isabel. It must be devestating to lose people and in a small village where I imagine you know most people it must be distressing.

HFF. Stay strong and keep safe.

Obrigada Carol, it is mainly a feeling of injustice, if such measures weren't taken surely most of these people would still be there. All stopped because of a covid that did not arrive here and people died of non assistance because of a... non-covid and the fear politicians had to be criticized if they didn't take drastic measures.
In our societies we forget more and more that death is natural, we die because we are born... and we have to die, in a way or another.

Thanks for your concern, enjoy all you can from Mother Nature, my only god.

Bom fim de semana, Isabel

Ena, seja bem aparecida ! Bom fim de semana amiga !!!!

Moral da história, a sorte proteje os audazes!

Ou seja: demasiada desinfecção debilita, tira-nos as defesas naturais...

A strong message Isabel, and not easy to answer, but a lot to think about.
Take care and have a good weekend.

Obrigada Rosa, same wishes.

hff and very nice weekend

Obrigada Trudy, same wishes

Uma gadanha em pausa - certamente não é a da Morte! A covid-19 e tudo o que a epidemia trouxe a reboque originou muitos danos colaterais: doentes não-covid que pereceram por receio da assistência hospitalar e outros que recorreram a ela, com urgência, não chegando vivos por se ter querido apurar primeiro se eram ou não portadores do vírus - como correio atrasado por falta do código postal! Aproveitemos o ar livre e o sol (a vitamina D não é nociva), evitando grandes ajuntamentos e proximidade física (sobretudo frente a frente). O medo obsessivo não é bom conselheiro. HFF, Isabel!

É bom ouvir pessoas razoáveis como o Dimas... no meio de tanta paranoia inútil...
Obrigada e bom fim de semana

There are some very interesting comments and points of view above... //
Have a good weekend Isabel.. ''HFF'' and keep well - from David J'.

So many differences... hope in tolerance...
Obrigada David, same wishes

Zum Glück ist die Sense ohne Mann!
HFF, Isabel, und ein beschauliches Wochenende!

A poor man who wouldn't harm anything but weed !!!
Obrigada Wilhelm

Nice addition to the group
Thank you for posting
www.ipernity.com/group/magicalsunlight

Obrigada Roger

stopping living to avoid dying is kind of escapism, isn't it?
;-))