One Or Another - Square

HFF -Frank

Outstanding autumn shot! Stay well!

Admired in: www.ipernity.com/group/tolerance

HFF en een prettig weekend.
Frans.

A masterful composition and a really inspiring life lesson.
HFF Frank!

HFF, Frank!

Lovely tree and great text.
HFF, Frank!

Most beautiful image Frank

HFF

A colourful Autumnal offering here Frank. Well done.

HFF, have a good and safe weekend. Herb

HFF and stay well, Frank!

HFF Frank!

Good quotes there Frank..... and trees change so much over a year - that although I know an area well.. I sometimes feel I'm in a different place.. // Have a ''HFF'' and fine weekend and Cheers'.. from Dj.. UK.

"and trees change so much over a year - that although I know an area well.. I sometimes feel I'm in a different place." So true David.

Fine words and a nice autumnal scene Frank
HFF and a good weekend

The colors are so beautiful ! HFF and a nice weekend, Franck !

A fascinating image, Frank.

As well, I'm fascinated by your comparison between the individuality and the life
of trees and humans.
But do we really always have a choice?
I agree with you about the choice between love and hate or contempt,
the choice between right and wrong, the choice between courage and cowardice, etc.
What comforts me, however, is the certainty that I'm allowed to make mistakes,
and still be loved.

Well said. I think we do have a choice because each choice leads to the next choice. We learn to make a habit of good choices from our bad ones .. or ... the fastest way to success is to replace bad habits with good habits.

I apologize for interfering in your discussion, Frank and ઇઉ, but I would like to introduce a nuance, as you started to do ઇઉ, regarding our free will. We have the choice, indeed, to act for the good, with courage or not, to learn from our bad choices, to abandon our "bad habits", etc. But it remains dependent on our own nature. For my part, I know I am incapable of being outside the law - and yet I know how arbitrary and unfair it is. I don't know how to hurt someone, yet I don't lack the desire to do so. Likewise, I cannot create anything original; but who knows this, apart from the geniuses? For every creator confesses to being inspired by his predecessors.
In the end, I am no different from anyone else if I confess to obeying only what has built me up and to the wills that flow from it.
We think we have a choice but, I believe, we always follow what our education, or even the morals of our society, dictate in our choices. So isn't this free will we claim for ourselves an illusion ? Beyond our need for individuality, which I regret to say, seems obsolete and even harmful in the light of what our societies are becoming?

I look forward to your contributions, my dear friends.

With my kind regards,
Eric

Some challenging words to ponder Eric. Thank you, and I will think this through and come back if anything comes to surface.
Now I'm going to get a little religious, only because it is the best way I know to respond:
Off the cuff, as we say here in America, Pope John Paul II once said that 'freedom is not the ability to do what we want and when we want, rather, freedom it to be given the ability to do what we should'.

With regards to what you said in light of what our societies are becoming, it reminds me of a blog post of mine from not to long ago, where I shared:

"In our culture there is much fear, and anxiety, caused by many things that seem out of control. Many people seem to be in conflict, more than not, and not only on social media. In fact, one of the main messages we see is:

“We don’t look to a god for answers. . . .We are each other’s answers.”"

www.cmcsmen.net/look-to-god-for-answers

Hope this at least provides some dialog ...

I sincerely thank you for your enriching comment, Eric, and, due to the complexity of the topic you raised, "Influence of the dictates of our education and the morals of our society on our choices", I'll try to limit myself to the essentials in my following commentary.

Assuming the worst-case scenario, what we generally consider to be bad character traits and/or behaviors, and attributing them to our nature, wouldn't that be an attempt to excuse or even justify one's own misguided speech and actions? Doesn't experience teach us that violence breaks itself?

Each of us has the possibility and the ability to reflect, i. a., on our education as well as on the morals of our society, and not the least on ourselves. But how do we generally deal with the knowledge we gain from it, at best?
Knowledge and experience teach that many of us don't even use the possibility and ability to reflect ["No problem is solved by passivity." (Lao Tzu)], or draw the wrong conclusions from it. "The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts: therefore, guard accordingly, and take care that you entertain no notions unsuitable to virtue and reasonable nature.", already stated Marcus Aurelius and thus already at that time showed a possible way out of crises, as we experience them today, for example, through Corona.

What I'd like to say is that, at least according to my knowledge and experience, it isn't the choice that many of us always believe to have, but the power of the quality of our thoughts, to which, however, we aren't defenseless and helpless, because here, as in some other areas of our lives, we actually have a choice …

Ich klinke mich einfach auch mal in die philosophischen Betrachtungen zur Freiheit des Willens ein. Und zwar möchte ich ergänzen, dass viele unserer Verhaltensweisen auch Relikte unserer Evolution sind.

Warum fahren wir beispielsweise nicht gern am Ende einer Autoschlange, oder noch bei Gelb über eine Ampel? Weil tief in unserem Stammhirn verankert ist, dass das Tier am Ende einer Herde den nachfolgenden Raubtieren zuerst zum Opfer fällt.

Warum gehen wir nicht gerne bei Nacht durch einen Wald, auch wenn wir wissen, dass es dort keine Raubtiere gibt? Wir haben viel weniger Angst, nachts eine beleuchtete Straße zu überqueren, obwohl die Statistik beweist: Das ist viel gefährlicher und völlig irrational.

Es würde helfen, uns dieser Irrationalität bewusst zu werden. Außerdem würde es uns helfen, den weit verbreiteten Dualismus zu überwinden. Bei jeder Situation, mit der wir konfrontiert werden, haben wir nämlich die Wahl, sie freudig zu begrüßen, sie abzulehnen, oder in unserer neutralen Mitte zu bleiben. Letzteres ist meistens die beste Wahl.

Leider sind weder die aktuellen politischen Systeme, noch die Medien dafür förderlich. Sie ziehen ihren Vorteil aus dem Dualismus, ebenso wie die 'sozialen' Medien, wenn sie Menschen an sich binden, indem sie Konflikte befeuern.

Solange wir uns instrumentalisieren lassen, sind wir nicht frei. Ob wir uns intrumentalisieren lassen, ist sehr oft unsere freie Entscheidung.

With behaviors being relics of our evolution, you bring another very exciting aspect into the conversation, which I would like to address.

With the extinction or the extermination of predators by humans, our instincts, developed over thousands of years, did not die with them, as we cannot overcome our fears by killing their supposed triggers. In this respect, it does not seem too irrational to me that people of today prefer to cross a lighted road than to go into the forest at night.

Also, the dualism you mention provides a wonderful opportunity for sharing thoughts, and at the same time mirrors one of Frank's statements under the photo.

As for widespread dualism, my understanding is that it is infinitely difficult for countless people to find and remain in their (neutral) center. How frequently are we tested by life, how often are we faced with a choice? How many times do we have to make decisions, whether we want to or not? The suggestive manipulations, the psychological tricks of those who take their advantage of this are often so sophisticated and perfidious that many do not even realize at first that they are being instrumentalized and exploited, that they are basically victims of psychological violence. In this respect, it is very often our free decision whether we allow ourselves to be instrumentalized - but not always. And for the not few exceptional cases it needs real empathy and often a lot of patience, because also the process of realization has and needs its time.

Relics of our evolution… A mental leap, don't worry, only a small one. ;)

Our intestinal microbiome... Our ancestors still ate a reasonably healthy diet rich in vital substances. The civilization diseases flooding us today up to partly massive psychological impairments were foreign to them. Here, too, we can exert a positive influence on ourselves and stop manipulative profiteers if we are prepared to take responsibility for ourselves.
So here, too, we have a free choice, depending on individual circumstances.

Thank you, Bernhard, for your excellent contribution to this discussion.

Fred, William, Frans, Eric, Stephan, Marta, Annemarie, Herb, Petar, Wierd Folkersma, David, Roger, Betty, Ulrich, * ઇઉ * ..... Thank YOU !!

And, as Roy T. Bennet said: "You cannot control the behavior of others, but you can always choose how you respond to it. You are not the victim of the world, but rather the master of your own destiny. It is your choices and decisions that determine your destiny"... HFF Frank.

Well said ...

HFF and a sunny weekend, Frank!

Just stunning!

Hi Frank
I like this picture very much!
It is a very different and exciting composition
Fantastic colours too
Best Wishes, HFF, a nice weekend, and stay safe!!
Peter

Christa, Berny, Cheryl, Peter, .... Thank YOU!

Fantastic photo.

Thank you very much Don.

......eine sehr schöne Herbstaufnahme lieber Frank,die auch durch den blauen Himmel richtig strahlt:))

.......wünsche noch einen schönen Nachmittag,ganz liebe Grüße Güni:))

Thank you Gunter

HFF and have a nice and helthy weekend

Fantastic colours here to see. Wish you a sunny weekend, Frank !

Betty, Marije, and Percy ... thank YOU!

Le bon choix est d'aller vers la lumière même si on doit braver certains obstacles.

Yes. Thank you Malik.

Couleurs et composition magnifiques. Je lis des choses trés intéréssantes ici sur les arbres. Je voudrais citer le poème d'un poète surréaliste Français: " La nature s'est prise aux filets de la vie. L'arbre; ton ombre, montre sa chair nue: le ciel. Il a la voix du sable et les gestes du vent et tout ce que tu dis bouge derriere toi." (Paul Eluard)