Crowdfunding by IMA day 6 - [EN] [FR]

@Audey: has everybody had an email ??

Jaap, I received my notice to contribute on March 17. It came to my inbox, and was not directed to my promotions, social or spam folders.

My email at Google Mail went to trash. So, there is a risk that number of people may never received (saw) the post.

I got mine in my inbox But I see many comments in bloggs saying exactly what you have experienced you mail went to your trash. Which is as you say a problem regarding people seeing them there.

I got mine OK

Ticket #38064

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Monday March 20, 2017 at 08:40AMTess Mc Kenna says:

Hi Team
Can you confirm that at this time all members have had an email to alert them regarding the Crowdfunding. In my opinion this is vital to push along the level of donations and allow the IMA to succeed financially
Regards Tess

Tess and Jaap, IP SA mentioned they emailed all account holders. I know some people may not agree, but if this is the case, then it appears to me we still have a lot of dead accounts that need removal so that monthly costs can be further reduced by freeing up server space. To me it is not possible that the number of active accounts they indicated would generate such a small response.

Realistically based on what Fotoblip discovered re: total accounts and active accounts, we probably here have about 2500 active accounts -- just enough to sustain the site and make it viable. There is no rational business reason to maintain the dead accounts in excess of this number especially with April so close especially since ad revenue is negligible at best. Eliminating them before April could reduce the monthly Amazon bill to create a stronger, more sustainable site.

Last, I am still waiting for the response from Indiegogo. All I received so far is a message thanking me for the submission and saying they are looking into it. Hope to have something better by the end of the day.

Yes William these dormant accounts need to be removed to free up server space and also to provide a true number of active members for statistic reasons.
If you remember I contacted them on this subject. IP*/SA replied that they had identified 20,000 dormant accounts and deleted them. They also that a possible 50,000 inactive accounts are possibly dormant and they said they were working on them and would delete them also. I have no idea if they completed this task.

Dormant account correspond to photos in the database that others can find -and buy (because you need to register and pay money to the dormant owner to turn him active before downloading).
Although this 'for sale' model is definitely not mine (you can check all my pics are open source), I still posit removing dormants does harm the database, reduces ipernity footprint, and lowers the possibility of some customer finding a nice pic and paying to download it.
I for one am *totally* against stretching our database, and as you can see, this is not just because it would 'save server space' (a notion nobody actually evaluated).
And, Ipernity obviously doesn't need to remove dormants to count paying members either.

I still disagree to delete dormant or inactive accounts in this special phase were every helping hand is needed.
Statistics can be made on the same data basis as to find out those accounts - no need to delete them for statistic reasons!

Be most interested to know Tess if you have got any response to this ticket and if so what they had to say on the subject? :)

As yet not response

Can't say that surprises me Tess, but that doesn't make it any the less disappointing! :(

Crowdfunding To Save Ipernity - Donate Here

Thankmyou for the latest news.
Johh aka stormlizard.

My question would be, when are they removing, or at least quaranting, the suspicious contributions from the one entity that has been identified? Is it even possible to do that without suspending the funding, which would be a disaster? It is just as winter*kind suggests. People are relaxing, thinking they are right at the finish line, when they had better not.

I would hope they would remove the suspicious amount from the total figure if there is a problem with this donor. If they do not, then maybe there is reason for hope.

I am with you on the hope. :)

Is there a list available showing those who have contributed and the amount, or those who have not yet contributed? Many years ago when raising funds for a school swimming pool, I asked the sponsor whether they would be mounting a plaque on the new building recognising the companies which had contributed. His response was that he was considering mounting a plaque showing the companies which had NOT done so! Result: almost all companies approached, contributed!
Assuming 2,500 active members and a $50,000 ultimate goal, it is surely not unreasonable to expect a minimum contribution of $20 per person?

Yes, there is such a list on the bottom right of the page. Per default it shows the last 5 contributions - hitting the button "show more" will give you 5 more - you can do this consecutively to see all 373 donations.

By the way: I don't like the idea of a minimum contribution at this point. A number of $ 10 donations is fine with me aws long as we come closer to our target. We have to differentiate between this crowdfunding effort - which asks for contributions of any amount - and the upcoming regular fees, which of course will have a minimum price tag.

Folks, please remember the survey results:
www.ipernity.com/group/2260604/discuss/186528

"Survey Results: 1443 members participated with 97% expressing a desire for Ipernity to be saved with an overwhelming number expressing a willingness to join a membership association.
Almost 2/3 of the respondents offered to participate in a CrowdFund campaign. When the answers for “other” are excluded, the amount offered was 34,595€.
In addition, 2/3 of the respondents agreed to an annual membership fee of 50€ or above. As a result, the IMA annual fee will be 50€, which is competitive with other photo sharing sites and will offer a sustainable, viable long-term future for the Ipernity platform."

Now this crowdfunding is about reaching that 2/3 out of 1443 members who said they would be ready to fund the IMA to get started. It means approximately over 900 members said they would join to crowdfunding. Now less than 400 have participated. So, over 500 members are still missing.

Then the total amount of money people promised to fund during the survey was 34,545€. That divided by 900 means the average amount people said they would be ready to pay is ~38€(~$40).

Currently it looks like people have paid something like $20,000/350 = ~$54 (~50€) per donor. Like one can expect, those who were ready to donate more than average have acted first.

So, indeed there is no minimum amount you are asked to donate now. Pay what you promised in the survey, or pay what you can =)

A fair assessment Sami.

Thanks - it looks as if provided those who offered to assist with the crowd-funding do so, we will be fine.

I received the March 17th email from ipernity without a problem.

I am happy with the progress of donation collections so far. If the other members who promised to donate to crowdfunding do their part, then we should be able to more than double the current donation total before the deadline. ;-)

I agree - we do need to keep up the publicity though as apparently it is hard to get the information out to everyone (for various reasons).

Sounds like you have already donated! Thanks! I have as well. I actually donated again today in honor of another member in the United Kingdom who couldn't find a way around the donation site rejecting his postal code - and he is without local support to help him.

Ich denke, es würden sicherlich noch viel mehr Mitglieder spenden, wenn eine Zahlung per PayPal möglich wäre. Vermutlich haben nicht alle eine Kreditkarte und deshalb auf die Möglichkeit einer Zahlung über PayPal gehofft.

Gibt auch einige die der Website von Generosity nich vertrauen !!

das denke ich auch. kreditkarte ist eine zusätzliche hemmschwelle.

Yes, it is too bad paypal couldn't be used - and that may indeed be some of our issues. (Unfortunately it wasn't possible - only way to not have fees charged by the collecting site) But some people have gotten around it with help of members or friends. If you can help someone you know has that issue, it would go far in bringing us to our needed goals.

Let's problem solve with what we have!

1. Paypal fehlt, definitiv.
2. Die Zahlung muss in Dollar erfolgen, das allein schreckt Leute ab.
3. Nicht jeder, vor allem in Europa mit seinem vernetzen Bankensystem wo das auch nicht nötig ist, hat eine Kreditkarte. Ich hätte auch keine, wenn meine Bank die nicht kostenlos dazu geben würde. Zahlungen mit Kreditkarte, vor allem in Fremdwährung, verursacht hohe Nebenkosten.
4. Eine gesicherte Umgebung der Webseite schützt nicht davor, dass der Betreiber der Seite nicht seriös ist. Und bislang habe ich da nichts seriöses entdecken können.
5. Ich habe in der Umfrage nicht zugestimmt, etwas zu spenden, weil mir ein Konzept für die Zukunft fehlt. Das fehlt auch jetzt noch.
6. Mir ist bislang immer noch völlig unklar, wofür ich hier Geld geben soll. Wofür wird denn das Geld konkret verwendet?
7. Trotz alle dem habe ich einen Betrag gespendet. Mir ist äußerst unwohl dabei. Und im Moment glaube ich jeden Tag weniger daran, dass da noch was zu retten ist.

Ich teile Deine Kritik, aber ein Konzept kann noch kommen.
Dafür braucht es Zeit, gerade wenn es wirklich dauerhaft tragfähig sein soll.
Manchmal muß man etwas wagen.

@ ALL:

GIVE IPER A CHANCE!

Bei Bedenken bezüglich Sicherheit von Online-Zahlungen ist die alternative Lösung zur Kreditkarte die Prepaid-Karte. Da wählt man selber, wieviel Geld man auf ein Konto einzahlen will und auch nur höchstens so viel kann man per Karte davon abbuchen.
Benutze für meine Internetzahlungen ausschliesslich diese. Da habe ich immer nur ein paar hundert Euros/Fränkli drauf. Wenn was schiefläuft, ist der Schaden in einem überschaubaren Rahmen.

Le courrier IMA arrive dans les SPAM
pour contacté plus de membres faire suivre le courrier vers nos contacts ipernity

THANK YOU TEAM IPERNITY!!
Thank for the update and the mass e-mail!! (I received mine the 17th AND the reminder 20th just fine)

I know there have been a lot of negative comments here, trying to make this perfect so we can continue, but I for one am grateful that you were able to send out a blanket e-mail (I know others are grateful as well, just frustrated at the machine that is internet communication). I am sure it is very helpfull! I have donated a 2nd time (like I do for my local classical non-profit radio station - when they continue to ask for help because they are below budget - when I am able). I hope that we can rise above the problem donations and get to our goal.

Thank you RainGirl for wording out the thoughts many of us probably has, and making it so elegantly =)

I also recommend anyone who does not want to stay along, to request closing the account. It should be easy and available via your setting page. There is rather visible 'Deactivate or delete your account' -link at the bottom of the page.

Many have also complained the planned 50€ per year IMA membership is too much. Keep in mind a survey you were asked to take part is sort of democracy. I suppose the 50€ annual membership is based on average of the survey results. That it would take to keep things running at the current amount of users. It doesn't mean it should stay that way. If we hopefully get the Ipernity web site saved, and things running smoothly, then in the future we can and should start to advertise this community. Remember, we are the IMA! ;-)

And please keep on donating on crowdfunding if you can, and as much as you can. And if you don't want or can't use credit card, then try to find a friend who does. Then make an agreement with that friend of your that s/he donates on behalf of you, and you pay to your friend when the crowdfunding result is clear.

Thank you Raingirl and Sami for your well said comments and your contributions. The membership amount can always change if it is possible depending on crowdfunding and expenses. If dead accounts are deleted (they contribute nothing to the site with regard to revenues to offset costs which at this time are more important than a "footprint" taking up server space) and costs are further reduced, anything is possible.

If the site is saved, then we can worry about expanding its presence through marketing and partnerships as long as the latter do not impose unnecessary conditions. In the future Ipernity, it is important that the members, which as Sami correctly says, are the IMA, retain full control over the site's destiny.

Also, Indiegogo uses https: protocol so claims that it is unsecure are simply inaccurate. This site is as secure as any site utilizing credit cards.

"I also recommend anyone who does not want to stay along, to request closing the account."

Account closing seems to be working fine, got several ipermails today about members who had leaving my groups, and after I checked their accounts I got the well-known display telling me this member isn´t active anymore. ;-( Well, at least they aren´t blocking the hd space anymore, but it was a little bit - well - frustrating to get all these ipermails today.
BTW: I got two mails by ipernity about the crowdfunding and they aren´t sorted in the spamfolder. ;-) So at least their sending seems to be working in my case. :)

"And please keep on donating on crowdfunding if you can, and as much as you can. And if you don't want or can't use credit card, then try to find a friend who does. Then make an agreement with that friend of your that s/he donates on behalf of you, and you pay to your friend when the crowdfunding result is clear."

Yes, but this is really an issue which should had been rethink, hopefully at least the member fee could be payed without such an not this often used credit card (in europe).
I tweeted about the crowdfunding and posted it on my facebook, but got always the response (if I got any) that they can´t provide any money because they don´t own a credit card. Thankfully I founded someone who paid something (but prefered to stay anonymous so you can´t find my nick in the list, well), but it could really way more if there is something like casual payments (paypal, bank transfers, whatever). I think the goal would already be done then...

However, after watching the site again it seems to be on a good way... this crowdfunding campaign.

Have been watching with great interest and appreciation the significant efforts I.M.A and all are putting in to this project; whatever transpires you have been marvellous and the community deserves survival from those actions!

Thank you Roger!

34 hours ago Jaap van 't Veen asked "has everybody had an email" and yet that question as best I can tell still hasn't been answered.

It really does our cause no good at all for questions like this to be ignored. In fact, it only serves to alienate people and potentially make the likelihood of ipernity being saved all the more difficult.

Jaap was the very first person to comment, which makes it hard to believe his question has simply been overlooked.

So please can someone from Team Ipernity confirm if emails have been sent to all account holders alerting them to the crowdfunding campaign?

And if the messages have only gone out to some account holders how have Team Ipernity decided who to target?

I have had an email thank you !!

Paul,

The email went to all users. Sadly the possibility exists it fell into the spam folder of some accounts.

Unless I am mistaken William you are basing that on your belief that Ipernity SA have done this and that belief is based on an impression they gave during recent discussions.

I have repeatedly asked this question of Team Ipernity as have others and they have not given a clear answer. In fact, Tess opened a Ticket on this very issue and they have still not replied to her either. So, despite what you have said I am yet to be convinced that they have indeed emailed all users! :(

I suppose they (Ipernity S.A. and IMA) are busy, IPernity S.A. having plenty of tickets to go through, and IMA having number of questions scattered all over the place waiting to become answered.

Please see the latest blog post by Ipernity S.A.: www.ipernity.com/blog/team/4655120

As far as I can tell, one can read the following between lines and within lines.

Ipernity S.A. and IMA have heard all the request that they should email all current Ipernity members and ask them to join to crowdfunding. However, I believe it is absolutely impossible for them to guarantee that all emails go through.

Like many have stated, they discovered the messages were gone to trash folder. That's what happened to the first message sent to me. The second one appeared in the Gmail (Google mail) inbox, but I guess it came through only because I had opened the previous similar message that was in the trash folder.

That is one problem (or a good feature) about Gmail. It "learns" from the user behavior. If one treats something as trash, the algorithm starts to treat all similar as trash, and vice versa.

So, Ipernity S.A. and IMA can only promise they have tried to send the message via email to all, but whether they go through is totally different issue ;-)

That's the point Sami, they have never given a public undertaking to email all users ... I agree they can't be held responsible for emails going astray, but that is different to saying publicly that they have indeed issued emails to everyone.

Team Ipernity have never been good at giving answers to probing questions and I see nothing of late to indicate they have changed. As long as they are operating the site and they continue to not give straightforward answers people will continue to become disgruntled and that will have an adverse effect on what the IMA are trying to achieve! :(

Re: Possible Fraud:

Indiegogo still has not responded to our direct request to look into the suspect $3862 donations. Yet at the same time, they have requested IMA's bank account info for transfer of funds if the crowdfunding effort is successful. Considering this person donated to two other fundraisers on Indiegogo which should have made answering easy, it is becoming increasingly likely there may be nothing wrong with them.

Ahm, don´t get what you are talking about, which "suspect $3862 donations" you are talking about? Could you give a link with further infos - I had read all the comments under this article, but as it was already 02:40am here - well, I can´t read the previous articles comments and the group discussions, too, but would like to know what you are talking about. ;)

People noticed that one person donated multiple times (not a problem - awesome actually!), but what was concerning is that the amounts were some small, some larger and odd amounts (like $99).

Two possibilites are most likely:
1) It is someone with stolen credit cards trying to see if the cards are useable - these type people test out cards, normally in very small amounts (so the fact that this person has some larger donations puts doubt that it is a stolen card situation).
2) It is someone who likes to donate to non-profits. Could even be one of our members. Maybe they were just helping prompt other people by continuing to donate and drawing attention with varying amounts.

Apparently we just have to wait to see what Indiegogo says about them (the company that runs generosity), but I agree that we may be very lucky and that someone has been very generous to our cause!

Thanks, raingirl.

Patience: the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious.

Just started my ‘own’ campaign to support the Ipernity crowdfunding.
Give IP crowdfunding a BOOST…..

Pas toujours honnêtes les gens..!

I did recieve two e-mails from Ipernity SA reminding me to Donate if I had not already done so.

These two e-mails came through without being Spammed by gmail.

Do you mean the e-mails arrived only just now when the donation is already over?

No Sami, it was long ago but you had already paid on my behalf by then.